Whatever has happened to the formal in formal night??

C

cruisebuddy

Guest
#41
Cruizer - cool off a little. ITA with sheilauk, though I might not go to the extreme of getting someone removed from the dinning room, I still feel her passion reagrding proper dress for formal nights. It was obvious by your post that you agree with her (to an extent), so why bash her when she obviously has a good point? Your assertion that you would not want to sit with her is contradictory to your willingness to observe the dress code. She and her guest are dressed properly, you and your guest are dressed properly, so what more would you want?

Formal night is a long-standing tradition in the cruise lore, and one that I hope continues for a long time to come. I might not say anything to the person at my table, but I would say something to the matre' d following the meal. Sheilauk is spot on - SAY SOMETHING! And I plan to.

Force RC to either publicly relax their policy OR enforce it. I don't think that is too much to ask.

And Sheilauk, the offer still stands - I'll sit at your table ANY cruise!
 
C

Cruizer

Guest
#42
[quote Travel itis]On our last cruise a couple at our table had booked within a month of the sailing. They'd never cruised and didn't use a TA, and they didn't know about formal nights until they got on the ship. They were going to skip the dining room, but all the rest of us at the table told them to wear the best they had and have dinner with us. It gave me a new perspective on the formal attire issue. [/quote]

Well, I am glad to see that there are still some people who value others for who there are, and not how they dress. You are a class act and I congratulate you.
 
S

sheilauk

Guest
#43
.. Class is class, and you are showing that you have a lot to learn in that area...

This has nothing to do with class its about observing the dress code that RC clearly print out on the Daily Compass. Im not going over and over the same point again and again. Lets just agree to disagree! As for what i said about removing people off the table clearly you dont understand english sarcasm. If you watched the Victoria Beckham programme you surely must understand that she was being sarcastic the whole through it. That is english sarcasm so just chill out. I mean how the hell can i tell someone to leave the dining room. End of discussion.
 
C

Cruizer

Guest
#44
[quote cruisebuddy]Cruizer - cool off a little. ITA with sheilauk, though I might not go to the extreme of getting someone removed from the dinning room, I still feel her passion reagrding proper dress for formal nights. It was obvious by your post that you agree with her (to an extent), so why bash her when she obviously has a good point? Your assertion that you would not want to sit with her is contradictory to your willingness to observe the dress code. She and her guest are dressed properly, you and your guest are dressed properly, so what more would you want?

Formal night is a long-standing tradition in the cruise lore, and one that I hope continues for a long time to come. I might not say anything to the person at my table, but I would say something to the matre' d following the meal. Sheilauk is spot on - SAY SOMETHING! And I plan to.

Force RC to either publicly relax their policy OR enforce it. I don't think that is too much to ask.

And Sheilauk, the offer still stands - I'll sit at your table ANY cruise![/quote]

Just because I choose to follow the rules does not mean that I agree with Sheilauk's passion. Her willingness to make others feel bad so that she can feel superior shows that nice clothing does not equal class. Such a nose in the clouds attitude shows how little class she has, while pretending that she is better than those who for whatever unknown reason are not dressed formally. The one very positive thing I have to say about NCL is their relaxed dress code. Now only if they would allow jeans in the dining room I would be really happy.

And for the record, I don't think she has a good point. How someone is dressed has no effect on how my food tastes or the quality of the service I receive. I could care less what someone else is wearing or not wearing, as long as safety standards are maintained. Given that there are children in the dining room, a little modesty is also appreciated.

To go to the extreme of making a scene to get someone thrown out of the dining room just because you don't like the way they are dressed shows a complete lack of class, and would affect my dinner if I was seated anywhere near by. Class people do not act in this manner. Class people would either ignore the issue completely or would talk to the person quietly and point out the issue.

I was in a restaurant with a very strict dress code once. A gentleman came in, took off his jacket and sat down. Within seconds a staff member whispered in the gentleman's ear. The man stood up, put back on his jacket and sat back down. This did not bother anyone else in the room, and the person was not thrown out for violating the rules. This is the class way to handle something like this.

I will guarantee you this, and I'll try and make this as clear as possible so that there is no confusion. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD I WANT TO BE SEATED WITH SHEILAUK. If someone acted as she is suggesting, I would asked to be moved to a different table that very night.

What you don't understand is that my desire to observe the dress code is my own personal choice. It is not something I am willing to force upon anyone else. As far as I am concerned, that is something the staff should do before the person enters the dining room. Once the person is in the dining room, the issue is closed as far as I am concerned. No passenger has the right to act as Sheilauk suggests.

On the Freedom of the Seas cruise just last month my sister wanted to know if her two young sons could wear shorts in the dining room for dinner. I pointed out the rules to her. On the first night she asked the waiter if it would be okay. He told her it would. There was never any further discussion about it the rest of the cruise. Not from me, not from any other passengers and not from the staff. In fact, I don't remember what they wore to the dining room because I didn't care. They were dressed nicely for both formal nights, as were we all. However, I did not that there were less people in the dining room for the second formal night then there were for the last night when tips are handed out (and those that don't want to tip usually don't show up).

As for me, I hope they do away with formal nights or at least make it optional. I really like my "formal" night photos from the NCL Star, where I was wearing a Hawaiian shirt (the cruise was to the Mexican Riviera). I go on vacation to get away from work, not to dress like I am still at work. This is the reason I will not be cruising on Crystal. As highly rated as their ships are, and even though I would like to give them a try, their strict dress code is too much for me. Since Regent has a more relaxed dress code, and is also highly rated, I'll give them a try.
 
C

Cruizer

Guest
#45
[quote sheilauk].. Class is class, and you are showing that you have a lot to learn in that area...

This has nothing to do with class its about observing the dress code that RC clearly print out on the Daily Compass. Im not going over and over the same point again and again. Lets just agree to disagree! As for what i said about removing people off the table clearly you dont understand english sarcasm. If you watched the Victoria Beckham programme you surely must understand that she was being sarcastic the whole through it. That is english sarcasm so just chill out. I mean how the hell can i tell someone to leave the dining room. End of discussion.[/quote]

Sorry, but I didn't watch the Victoria Beckham program. Unless it shows on the Discovery Channel, I am unlikely to see it.
 
C

cruisebuddy

Guest
#46
Your desire to observe the dress code is your own personal choice?

No, sorry, it's not only your choice, but, hypothetically, it's the rules! True, sheilauk is being sarcastic, but for those of us who choose to follow the rules (dress codes), we need to stick together. Let's not argue the point, let's drive the point home to the powers that be at RC to say that if they are going to bother to post a dress code in the Daily Compass, then people should adhere to it. If they are starting to relax their view on dress codes, then why bother to publish one in the Compass?

Let's move on. Water under the bridge, right?

<Now THAT is funny!>
 
S

sheilauk

Guest
#47
Cruizer

Chill out - go on an anger management course and finally take a cruise preferably to the Arctic.
 
B

boba

Guest
#48
=twocents Cruizer, what would happen to the gentleman in the fancy restaurant who took off his jacket, if he refused to put it back on? :S
 
G

Gayle V

Guest
#49
Hello boba,

I'll answer for Cruizer. I that situation, restaurants that require a jacket, firmly ask the gentleman to leave.

One of my son's friends was a waiter in such a place, and talked about it once. He said they do insist. They will be very quiet and very unobtrusive about it, but they will insist.

No they didn't have a bouncer, but they did have several young male type waiters who were told to "be visible" nearby. He said he only once saw anyone refuse the second request.

That fellow did seem inclined to refuse, so the Maitre' D came and waived away the other waiters, as if to give up the battle. But about three minutes later came back and very appologetically asked him "Sir, what kind of car do you drive?" When he answered, he was told, "Oh I'm so sorry, but I think your car may have been the hit in our parking lot." When the man went to check his car, he was not allowed back in.

I thought that was a brilliant idea, but that's not going to work on a ship. :shug
 
J

John

Guest
#50
Hi Everyone, I love a good debate and this definately is a good one. I just need to remind everyone what seperates the Cruise Addicts community from the others. Its the people who are polite and can debate these tough subjects and not make any personal attacks. Please be sure that this is not part of your message or else it causes me to have to remove the thread. Please review our forums Terms of Service and note this portion "Please, don't attack another poster personally. Do not harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to another member that is unwanted, do not attack their race, heritage, beliefs, etc. If you disagree with someone, respond to the subject, not the person. Postings of this nature will be removed from the forums.". If your guilty of any of this please apologize or risk being locked in your cabin and given crew food while your dressed in just your PJ's for the rest of your cruise here. ;)

Capatain out, Keep fighting... I mean debating. Personally I agree that many lines are really becoming very casual overall. Those that want a more formal environment should change lines that are more formal. I'd suggest Holland America, Celebrity, Princess as a good start. I also know that the shorter cruises are going to lean towards more casual than say a 7 night or longer cruise. It also can vary by time of the year, who's onboard? So many factors can be in play but, picking a more formal line with a stronger empasis on "the traditional" dining experience is worth looking into. Price is not always the difference either, the cruise lines are trying to appeal to so many demographics. The "personal choice" idea is effecting many different lines and services onboard. It sounds like you may have outgrown this particular line, so I would branch out.
 
B

boba

Guest
#51
:thumb The point is the guy in the restaurant put his jacket on because he knew it was the dress code. If the dress code is for a cruise or on land, either honor it or don't go.If you go and don't follow the dress code, it looks like your just trying be difficult. =twocents
 
C

Cruizer

Guest
#53
[quote boba]=twocents Cruizer, what would happen to the gentleman in the fancy restaurant who took off his jacket, if he refused to put it back on? :S[/quote]

He would have been asked to leave. That restaurant had a VERY strict dress code that was always enforced. Royal Caribbean cannot say the same thing - and everyone knows it. So there is a difference.
 
C

Cruizer

Guest
#54
Gayle V -

I must say, I have noticed a lot of your posts lately and simply put they are quality posts. I might not agree with everything you say (I don't), but whether I agree or not, you say what you have to say very well. I am impressed. :thumb
 
B

boba

Guest
#55
=huh I give up.Just throw on whatever and head on down to the dining room, strap a feed bag on and have at it. I guess if I want a little ambiance with my meal I'll have to pay for a specialty restaurant. They still dress up for those don't they. :p
 
P

PH8

Guest
#56
[quote boba]=huh I give up.Just throw on whatever and head on down to the dining room, strap a feed bag on and have at it. I guess if I want a little ambiance with my meal I'll have to pay for a specialty restaurant. They still dress up for those don't they. :p[/quote]

Not so much..men can just wear a shirt and pants.......no ties or jackets required.........

Of course,no shorts...........
 
C

Cruizer

Guest
#57
[quote boba]=huh I give up.Just throw on whatever and head on down to the dining room, strap a feed bag on and have at it. I guess if I want a little ambiance with my meal I'll have to pay for a specialty restaurant. They still dress up for those don't they. :p[/quote]

The dress code in the specialty restaurant is no different than the main dining room. If dress is important to you, you might want to check out Celebrity (owned by RCI), HAL or Crystal.
 
B

boba

Guest
#58
:wave It's not that dress is important to me, but we had such a great time on Voyager with DDs all dressed up with pretty much EVERYONE else. It was a chance to do something we wouldn't do at home. If more people want to dress down for formal night than it will probably be a thing of the past. Sad, but hey, your still on cruise. lol
 
R

ROSS

Guest
#59
The formal debate is always a good one. I recently did a poll on this topic and found out that 93+% of the people responding to ROYAL CARIBBEAN felt that the "Suggested Dress" should be followed.

Cruising is changing...there is no doubt about it...it is, without a doubt, the best vacation value dollar for dollar. The short cruises become more informal and now the informality is creeping into the 7 day cruises and the Alaska cruises. Now we are seeing the debates about "Anytime Dining" and "Traditional Dining". Even RCI is in the process of experimenting with Anytime Dining. We now have lines like OCEANIA that have abolished Formal Nights onboard...they have what is called "Country Club Casual". There are alternatives to Formal Dining...but in order to understand Formal Dining we need to understand where all that tradition comes from. We should understand that cruising came from the great Transatlantic Era and a lot of the customs and traditions onboard ship come from that era.

Formal Dining is a wonderful tradition...and it should not be abolished just because a lot of people want to go casual. The poll numbers do not lie...more than 93% of the RCI responders still prefer formal. I am finding that cruising in the summer time, during school vacations, shorter cruises and Alaskan cruises are all becoming more informal.

I was on 2 Princess cruises recently and I was able to talk to one of the head Maitre D's. He told me that they see less formality in the summer time and things tend to get more formal after that. I was cruising in October and I was amazed to see a huge number of formally dressed pax onboard the STAR PRINCESS and the CARIBBEAN PRINCESS. I was really surprised as I had imagined they would be a bit more informal on a Mass Market Line like Princess.

Our longer cruises are always more formal and this certainly includes ROYAL CARIBBEAN INTERNATIONAL. Sure we have had times when we would see uninformed pax who do not know about formal. We have also seen the occasional oaf/s who flagrantly dress to show their protest (This makes me laugh...who are they protesting...other than themselves...LOL.) So...let the debate rage on...rest assured, there will still be enough of us traditionalists to carry on. I believe that formal dress sets an example and that many others will follow that example. Those of you who do not want to will find other venues. All the ranting and raving will not change us. The funny thing about the poll was...when the vocal minority found out that they were just a distinct minority...they just became silent and went away. So I say to all you traditionalists out there...if you want to keep Formal Night formal...just set an example!!!

ROSS
 
C

Cruizer

Guest
#60
The problem with an online poll is the people responding make up less than 1% of the cruising population, and it is not a random selection. It is like trying to decide an election based only on the absentee ballots.