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why is attire such a sore subject on this board?

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clarkie138

Guest
#1
I have noticed tons of problems with this sort of post and even got a sarcastic answer when I posted a question about this topic. Some people like to dress up and some do not. I for one do like to dress up now and then but on vacation, I do feel that I would like to be casual. I only asked because I have been on carnival and you can wear whatever you wanted on any night other than formal night. But everyone has different views, just curious why people get slammed for this topic. Hope everyone has a great cruise
 
M

Mbandy

Guest
#2
I don't see the need for being slammed for any question anyone might have. This is usually a pretty friendly site.

As for your question I guess if you picture yourself in a swanky restaurant with all the patrons dressed appropriately for that type of place. It would probably turn a few heads if somebody walked in dressed appropriately for the Mc Donald's drive through.

For me personally I like to wear a tux and Susan always looks so lovely in her beautiful dresses. Then again there are some people you couldn't pay to put on a tie. I don't mind that either. IMHO the beautiful dining rooms aboard ships do deserve better than just shorts or jeans at dinner.

Happy Cruising,

Michael

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clarkie138

Guest
#3
I understand that and that's great. I would love to get dressed up once in a while. But for example, I have never been on RC and I asked one day about dressing for the dining room, someone says, have you been to day camp or something? That was not right. And I see arguments start for this exact question and its just silly. I was just curious. Thanks.
 
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Cruise cutie

Guest
#4
the best way to start a war on threads..asking questions on 1. ..Formal wear, 2. Tipping, and 3. children and where they should or should'nt be or what children should or should'nt do on board ships............it's everyones cruise. and "their vacation".... and how they choose to do it is based solely on their expectations..however, when you take the demographics of Age, Sex, Married,Single, have kids on vacation or adults with NO kids on vacations, Formal versus Smart Casual versus downright everyday plain not gonna wear more than shorts!!....there is when you kick in a volatile mix on want-wants..and when you throw in cost ranges for different cruise lines and 3 dayers, 4 dayers, which tend to be more casual- and party time..go up to 7 dayers and family/ versus couples/..and then longer cruises that cost more ...with the expectation families tend NOT to do these as they cost way more and involve kids out of school longer..then you throw in Spring Break, summer vacation ,and "the holidays "Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hannakuh. and New Years.............. when you throw in all these factors and the idea of a vacationer saying "IT"S MY VACATION AND I"LL DO WHAT I WANT"...sigh..so you get what you get..=shrug..there is no real answer..nor wrong or right..everyone feels their choice is best..and thus the WAR begins................Happy cruising..JMHO =twocents...Joanne
 
B

baby love Jim

Guest
#5
First ....Cruise cutie very well said, I agree 100%.

clarkie138 ...
I cruise with my 3 kids 2 girls 21 and 17 and a son 16... all I ask of them is to have dinner together ...In the dinning room .. to me it is part of the cruise experince.. we get all decked out on formal night...(this year my son and I have rented tuxes).. I feel that my kids would not get this kind of experence at home ..
But to each his own .... I wouldn`t want to see someone in shorts in the dinning room on formal night .
I have never seen that and if someone did wear shorts there is nothing I could do . I am on vacation and so is everyone else lets just have a good time and good memorys
just my $.02
 
K

Ken_2001

Guest
#6
Mike...Joanne... very smart. Terrific answers. Very bottom line and "the way it usually is" Kudos.

eh hem.. Now for those nude cruises. Ya think they have this problem!?! Hmm? :lol :grin :spank
 
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Mbandy

Guest
#7
Good points Cruise Cutie...

I agree on your points of contention. I stick with my prevous post, I would not think of going to Austin's or Ruth's Chris here in Vegas (my two favorite steak houses) in less than "smart casual" attire.

On a cruise, beach bum by day (shorts, Hawiian shirt) and James Bond by night. How cool huh? Where else but a cruise could you find that?

Happy Crusing,

Michael
 
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Mbandy

Guest
#8
ThanksKen,

Glad to know I had something intelligent to say today, Cheryl, don't you worry about posting questions and getting friendly answers. Most of us are pretty good folks. You're always welcome here. AGREE gang?

Michael
 
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Ken_2001

Guest
#10
OH hell yea. C'mon in and put in your 0.05 cents. P.S. I really need the extra three cents. These gas prices are killin me. :lol You didn't think my regular job is about to compensate me for this now did ja? :grin
 
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rre125

Guest
#11
Personally, I'm a t-shirt/shorts/sneaker person.

But for the casual dining nights, I wore a blouse/slacks and sandals. For the Formal nights I wore a skirt/blouse/jacket/shoes getup. Plain and simple outfits

A fellow traveler in our group had no intention to participate in the Formal Nights. We respected her decision to do so.

At my local beach club's restaurant - the rules are No shirt/No shoes - NO Service. This is ordered by my state's Department of Health.

IMHO, What constitues for swimwear attire nowadays is smaller than a baby's diaper.
 
H

Hal

Guest
#12
Dress on a cruise ship is different from dress on a land vacation. When on a land vacation, you make a conscious choice where to eat each meal. Presumably that choice includes what is on the menu, the atmosphere and the required or suggested dress. Few people would present themselves at an upscale restaurant in a mode of attire that is out of character with the restaurant. On a cruise, because everything is included (well, almost everything) we tend to think we are the final arbiters of our attire. However, on today's ships, there are always alternative dining venues to eat something different, enjoy a different atmosphere and to wear different attire. If we choose the main dining room on formal night, we are choosing to eat in a formal atmosphere. If we choose to eat at a grill on deck or the buffet or Johnny Rockets, we are choosing that type of atmosphere. I agree it is each of our vacations, but we have to choose how and where to go. The refrain "it's my vacation," I submit, means being able to choose where to eat not that we will do our own thing irrespective of the dining room, atmosphere and attire suggestions.

Our experiences on RCCL have been uniformily great. However, we cruised NCL two years ago and the "freestyle" went too far. At the formal Christmas dinner, several dinners went to the main dining room in shorts and t-shirts, having come directly from the sport deck, and were not turned away. With the choices on today's ship, the maitre de only had to suggest they change clothes or choose another less formal venue, but alas, it was their vacation.

Even our two teenaged sons, now 16 and 19, dress for dinner. Our oldest even has a tux to wear on our cruises in addition to a sport coat for less formal nights. Indeed, it is not a bad experience for our kids to learn that certain occasions deserve being dressed up. Many times at work or school it is expected and our kids should feel comfortable doing so. Our oldest son, the college junior, has learned that lesson and continues to receive invitations at college to the president's and professor's homes because many of his peers thought they could go to those events in regular college wear. I also teach graduate school and practice law and it is incredible what students and others think is appropriate wear. Clothing is, for better or worse, dictated by the circumstances, not just our own feelings.

I am with the other posters here, shorts and tennis shirt's all day. It will be hard to find me in anything else, unless we catch a cold day. - perish that thought But at night, there is something about a cruise ship and being dressed up. I love walking the decks with my wife, her being dressed beautifully, the stars, the moon, the waves - very romantic, you get it. Plus, even winning a $5 hand of black jack when dressed up makes you feel like James Bond in Monte Carlo.

Let's keep up the discussion. I'm not looking down on anyone, just giving my humble thoughts on what is right for me.

Hal
Voyager - Christmas 2004 (Western Caribbean)
Zaandam - Christmas 2003 (Eastern Caribbean)
Norwegian Sea - Christmas 2002 (Belize)
Monarch - Christmas 2001 (Western Caribbean)
Color Festivale - Summer 2001 (Norway and Denmark)
 
K

Ken_2001

Guest
#13
Hal... I checked this thread just to see what was going on and saw this long, long post from you. I said Oh jeez, here we go.

I just wanted to tell you I really liked what I read, and really appreciated it. You really have a good head on your shoulders and make a lot of sense.

Good post, enjoyed it :thumb
 
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ROSS

Guest
#14
HI KEN,

Each line is different in this regard and the above posts are correct...there is a difference between a 3-4 day, a 7 day and a 10 day or longer cruise. There is a difference between cruising in the Summer and the rest of the year. There is a difference between Alaska, the Caribbean and Europe and again in the Spring, Summer and Fall.

I have just done a survey on another board and found that ( of Celebrity cruisers...very close to RCI) more than 75% of the pax like to dress up and an additional 15% do not particularly like it but will do it to follow the dress code...and a certain % of these will grow to like it (25 - 30%).

The bottom line is that more than 90% of the cruising public (In this case...CELEBRITY) want to dress up. The survey also showed that the 90% feel that proper dress improves the social and behavioral atmosphere. It appears that the RCI affectionados are not far behind these Celebrity numbers.

Some of us were stunned as we are used to hearing from the pax who do not want to dress up. We came to the conclusion that the "non-dressers" are a vocal minority who give the impression that most pax don't care about dressing and following the dress code. This is not the case but, rather, the opposite...Most pax (90.66%) want to dress up and follow the dress code and appreciate the refined atmosphere.

So Ken...in response to your question: I think that non-dressers are a lot more vocal and argumentative on this subject...even though they are in the bottom 10% vs. the 90% who definately approve of the dress code and follow it. It could, very well be, that the 10% have discovered RCI/CELELBRITY and really like it except for the dress code and that they are trying to change the culture...which is not going to happen in the immediate future with more than 90% adhering to the traditional.

ROSS
 
K

Ken_2001

Guest
#17
Well, that's definitely encouraging Ross. Like Mike just said, I never would have guessed such a high percentage.

But just seeing people walking around in black leather shoes, slacks and a golf tee makes for a nice atmosphere. I really forgot who said this on these boards, but they suggested that was "uptight" I paid no mind to that really.

In keeping with the tradition of classic ocean passages, I wouldn't be surprised at the type of element that Cunard attracts regarding dress code. I can just picture it now. The largest ballroom at sea onboard the Grand Dame Queen Mary 2. (Not Queen Mary 2nd. That refers to humans) Rich dark suits, and long elegant evening dresses with some sort of sequence.

and during those sea days, (gosh those sea days..what is it? like 5 or 6? ) Not a sneaker to be found, flip flops? What the heck is a flip flop? :lol
 
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Rubysky

Guest
#18
This isn't the only board that has fanatics about dress code. It is hottly debated on cruise critic and cruisemates and every other board out there. There are always a few that can't play nice, it's "their way or the wrong way." I don't know what their problem is, maybe they need to get a life. (this goes both ways, folks)
I do believe that if you are going to eat in a nice place you should take the time to dress accordingly. Jeans, shorts & t-shirts belong at McDonnalds, but seeing someone dressed like that certainly won't ruin my cruise experience. One thing that I cannot understand is the folk who get all dressed up for dinner and then go rushing back to their cabin to change into their "comfies". Why bother getting dressed up to begin with.? Well, that is my 2 cents, I will stop before I ramble on and put my other foot in my mouth.
 
B

bicker

Guest
#19
There are several subjects that are rather frequent sources of conflict on these boards. I believe that many such conflicts can be tracked back to a difference of belief, with one side or both sides refusing to respect the beliefs of the other side. Typically, this is due to an underlying feeling that one's own beliefs are more generally applicable -- that everyone should believe the same thing (with regard to the specific matter), or that, at least, others should defer to the beliefs of the person raising the issue.

There is historical background for the dress code conflict. Dress codes on cruise ships used to be mandatory and as ubiquitously complied-with as the societal mores which had men wearing hats, women never wearing pants in public, etc. As time progresses, society's mores change, and there is rarely a change that everyone in society hails as univerally "good". In the case of attire, in general, to this day people have differences of opinion about school uniforms, casual clothing in the workplace, and yes, even bikinis vs. one-piece bathing suits for women. So, as it pertains to cruise ships, the conflict is between the "traditional" beliefs and the "contemporary" beliefs regarding appropriate attire. Some who hold the "traditional" beliefs further believe that everyone should hold those beliefs -- that there is no room for other beliefs except their's. I believe that is the root of the problem.

Let's keep one thing in mind: Formal attire is required on formal nights on RCI ships. I don't know of any defensible argument that would hold that a customer has a right to unilaterally refuse to comply with the rules established by a supplier -- rules established to protect the enjoyment of the cruise for all passengers. Truly, believing that one "paid XXX for a vacation" and therefore deserves "whatever they want" is ludicrous, and self-centered, and is considered a deviant belief (typically described as "boorish") by almost everyone. So some expectation of imposition of the "traditional" belief is not only defensible, but indeed it would be indefensible to ignore the cruise line's stated requirements.

However, RCI, at least, while it requires formal attire on formal nights, grants each passenger the respect to decide what will serve as formal attire for them. RCI provides some suggestions folks can use as a guideline, but doesn't set forth "minimum acceptable criteria" for judging what is vs. what is not formal attire.

So that leads to some games-playing, I believe, which causes most of the conflict: Some folks abuse (IMHO) this respect granted them by the cruise line, and, for example, consider shorts to be formal attire. Unless we're talking about formal Bermuda attire, complete with the blazer, and proper socks, that's clearly just an attempt to rationalize a bad decision that cannot be defended on its merits.

Games-playing can be found on both sides of the issue, though. I've seen some "traditionalists" assert that anything but what is suggested is prohibited. They have even gone on a limb asserting that in their language the word "suggests" means "requires". They bring into the argument illusory principles -- beliefs they hold and expect everyone else to agree with -- without any defensible foundation for such assertions. They basically apply logical fallacies such as Prejudicial Language or argumentum ad verecundiam to try to divert attention away from the indefensibility of their position.

The games-playing really is frustrating. It is a clear indication that the posters simply don't respect the people who they're writing to, and that just escalates the tension in whatever threads these games are played in.
 
R

ROSS

Guest
#20
HI GANG!!!

I just had this conversation on another board...the word is "REQUESTED" in regard to evening wear. there is a reference to "SUGGESTED" but that is for port wear.

REQUESTED is not SUGGESTED...They are asking you to comply with their requests.

I just did a survey on RCI and found that more than 90% of the pax wanted to or would adhere to the dress code...suggest code...request code...whatever you want to call it.

It has become very apparent that the "non-dressers" have become a very vocal minority who are trying to dictate their policies and agendas to the majority.

ROSS